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that Nefertiti is queen of both. Posted 11 years ago. BETH HARRIS: When we It had been invited by Gaston Maspero, director of the Egyptian Antiquities Service, and some of the great archaeologists of the time were invited: The German Ludwig Borchardt (who in 1912 discovered the bust of Nefertiti) on behalf of the German archaeologist George Steindorff, the Italian Ernesto Schiaparelli (who in 1904 would locate Nefertaris tomb), and the North American George Andrew Reisner, known as the American Flinders Petrie for the precision and meticulousness of his methods. At the same time, he tried to simplify the forms and volumes, progressively creating a strongly abstracted picture that few of us would likely recognize as of a cow if we were not led through the process by which he developed the image. seems to be demanding this new style dominated Pharaoh Menkaure was a ruler of Ancient Egypt during the Old Kingdom period, around 2500 BC. In ancient Egypt, hierarchy was glorified to signify the contribution and power they had. According to the historian Manetho, Menkaure succeeded a king called Bikheris. This piece gives a look at Egyptian culture during this time and preserves the image of Pharaoh Menkaure and Queen Khamerernebty. Photo: Dr. Amy Calvert, CC BY-NC. Please refer to the appropriate style manual or other sources if you have any questions. In 1838, the ship sank off Spain's coast, and the coffin ended up on the bottom of the Mediterranean Sea. The subjects featured in the artwork are Pharaoh Menkaure and Queen Khamerernebty. The sculptures of the Bust of Nefertiti and the Pharaoh Menkaure and his queen Khamernebty II are both represented as full round, however, there are many differences between the two. Direct link to DiCola's post If _Aten_ was a sun god, , Posted 10 years ago. After its discovery, it was loaded onto the ship Beatrice and sent to the British Museum in London for display. At the eastern entrance, a hall with four columns flanked by rooms that looked like warehouses led to a large patio that gave access to the offering room, with six columns, and the sanctuary itself, next to which some rooms opened. Direct link to drszucker's post Style quickly reverted to. with their children. The wooden mummy-shaped coffin reached the British Museum, but all efforts to locate the shipwreck and the lost basalt sarcophagus of Menkaure failed. This grid helped the artists properly proportion the figures and lay out the scenes. to most Egyptian art. Discovery. Direct link to Vanna's post Why are the daughters dep, Posted 9 years ago. Menkaure's unfinished pyramid was not higher than those of his father and grandfather, but the coating was beautifully polished, which can still be seen today. Egyptian sculpture. There were numerous native stones used for statuary, including the ubiquitous soft limestone of the desert cliffs that line most of the Nile valley, as well as sandstone, calcite, and schist. Harder stones include quartzite, diorite, granite, and basalt. (Figure 4.4) A Quaker minister, Hicks treated his painting at first as a supplemental avocation, then as his primary means of supporting his family. The author Nancy Luomala from the article "Matrilineal Reinterpretation of Some Egyptian Sacred Cows," contemplated on the ancient Egyptian power, and the matrimonial decline that men were able to acquire the position of Pharaoh. Khentkaus I, the Queen of the next Pharaoh Shepseskaf, was a daughter of Menkaure; while his second daughter died at an immature age, during the lifetime of her father, as per the record of the Greek historian Herodotus. Left: Fragments of the lid of a wooden coffin have been found, probably from a restoration of the burial from the 26th Dynasty. Was The Worlds Oldest Surviving Garden Created By Ancestors Of The Katzie First Nation 3,800 Years Ago In British Columbia? His second wife was his half-sister Queen Rekhetre. Their function is uncertain, although they possibly had both a cult and a political component; a way of indicating that Menkaure was the lord of the whole country. Menkaure and His Queen shows the two-people standing side by side and the queen has an arm wrapped around the pharaoh. really tells us a lot. Let us know if you have suggestions to improve this article (requires login). In order to ensure the King's eternal resurrection, this sculpture is employed. The pharaoh has his fists clenched around two round objects and has one foot forward, The main figures take up almost entirely the whole piece and their whole bodies are shown. Most pigments in Egypt were derived from local minerals. periods between-- art is consistent for Why Was It Necessary For Great Physician Hippocrates To Eat Earwax? It may help to start here by examining a number of works; each is based on the artists observations of cows but is distinctive in what the artist elected to convey in their artwork about cows on the continuum from representation to abstraction. The turning point in this evolutionthe moment when the achievement of naturalism was pronouncedwas with the creation of the Kritios Boy, c. 480 BCE. 1473-1458 B.C., assumed the titles and functions of king she was portrayed in royal male costumes. around 1350 BC, everything changed Three of Menkaure's queens are buried in small pyramids next to his at Giza, but their names are unknown. Right: Drawing of the anthropoid coffin fragment inscribed with the name of the king Menkaura made by excavator Richard Vyse and published in 1840. source. It was in these rooms that Reisner made a sensational discovery in July 1908. And I think it's Only from this room leads a tilted tunnel to the real burial chamber. Having said that, we can proceed to see art in terms of its relative representation or relative abstraction of the original form. We don't really know the motive, only that everything changed back almost immediately. In this work it seems that the artist made no attempt whatsoever to create the illusion of depth or dimension., The materials used to create these sculptures symbolized the pharaohs timelessness and eternal life, the body of the pharaohs symbolized the power given to them by God, and the formal design qualities showed the religious and political qualities in the statues. The Art of Ancient Egypt. This was the norm, for example, in depictions of royal figures in ancient Egypt. Is this fair? As Pharaoh, she encouraged trade and sent a voyage to the land of Punt, sponsored a vast building project in Egypt, added to the temple of Amon at Karnak, and commissioned her famous mortuary temple, Deir el-Bahri, decorated with her most impressive achievements. Temples were closed, and the Egyptians - both free citizens and slaves - worked day and night, building pyramids for their rulers. Thus, the Germans were given the sector of the pyramid of Khafre; the Italians, part of the cemetery located to the north of the pyramid of Khafre, and the North Americans were lucky enough to have the entire funerary complex of Pharaoh Menkaure, the architect of the smallest pyramid of the three that stand in Giza. Among these three pyramids, the largest and the fully completed one houses a statue of a Queen. H, Posted 10 years ago. And this was in such contrast Menkaure, also spelled Menkure, Greek Mykerinos, (flourished 26th century), fifth (according to some traditions, sixth) king of the 4th dynasty (c. 2575-c. 2465 bce) of Egypt; he built the third and smallest of the three Pyramids of Giza. And so he upsets the On the other hand, the basalt sarcophagus could have belonged to Menkaure, but unfortunately, nobody had the opportunity to examine it. rendered as the sun disk. Four years later, in 1906, archaeologist George Reisner began excavating in the vicinity of the Menkaure funerary complex, leading an expedition organized by Harvard University. The shoulders are rounded and there is a long oval indentation that resembles a neckline for a dress. It is carved out of a stone block and can be considered a high-relief sculpture. Menkaure was the fifth king in the line of the Fourth Dynasty, in the Old Kingdom of ancient Egypt. Only the name of one of his queens is known, Khamerernebty II, Menkaure's full sister and daughter of Khamerernebty I. or Akhenaten, we see swollen bellies, very thin Representation, then, shows us some broad vision of what we see in the original, be it a person, landscape, interior, event, or such, with some level of detail. According to tradition, Menkaure was . A partial list includes: Nome triad, Hathor Mistress-of-the-Sycamore seated, and King and Hare-nome goddess standing, greywacke, in Boston Mus . This is the pharaoh of Figure 6. And, to some extent, all works are also abstract, in that they might remind us of what we see in the phenomenal world by only reflecting some physical feature(s) rather than detailing the object, place, or person itself. 3000 BC circa Early Dynastic Period begins after the unification of Lower and Upper Egypt 2469-2150 BC Old Kingdom - establishment of the traditional artistic canon 2040-1640 BC Middle Kingdom 1550 BC New Kingdom - Egyptian artistic tradition at its height, great architectural achievements and big temples . This little panel The Old Kingdom, the Middle Menkaure and His Queen is a three-dimensional image due to the fact that it is a sculpture and not a flat painting and makes the people seem as though they are realistic. He explored color theory in relationship to music, logic, human emotion, and the spiritual underpinnings of the abstractions that for centuries had been viewed and absorbed through religious icons and popular folk prints in his native Russia. If we look at the Kingdom, the New Kingdom, and the transitional Stay up to date with our latest special offers: 2023 AskAladdin Limited. Akhenaten was a monotheist. https://www.britannica.com/biography/Menkaure-king-of-Egypt, The Metropolitan Museum of Art - Seated Statue of King Menkaure. His facial features are remarkably individualized with prominent eyes, a fleshy nose, rounded cheeks, and full mouth with protruding lower lip. STEVEN ZUCKER: Right. except for the rays that terminate right at the And Maat answered the messengers: "Menkaure is kind and fair - that's why I shortened his life. Or did the Amarna style continue to influence later art? Menkaure (also Menkaura, Egyptian transliteration mn-k3w-R), was an ancient Egyptian king of the fourth dynasty during the Old Kingdom, who is well known under his Hellenized names Mykerinos (Greek: ) (by Herodotus) and Menkheres (Greek: ) (by Manetho).According to Manetho, he was the throne successor of king Bikheris, but according to archaeological . historians wonder whether there was something Menkaure: The pharaoh of the 4th dynasty of the Old Kingdom of Egypt, son of Khafre and grandson of Khufu. exposed to us as possible, while the figures Excavators first discovered the Kouros under the guidance of George Reisner (Harvard University - Museum of Fine Arts, Boston . Direct link to WallAvi's post Possible answers to your , Posted 10 years ago. This is clear in both the Egyptian Sculpture Vizier (Figure 1) and the Roman sculpture Bust of and Unknown Man (Figure 2). From the start of the back of the neck down to the start of the tail, a long undecorated line interrupted by a horizontal band of inscriptions around the neck appears to divide the sculpture medially. There is a softness that we're looking at, this sunken relief has a small cobra in it, which signifies that this is the Akhenaten liked Nefertiti a lot, so she's almost as big. Here, Akhenaten youngest one, on her shoulder, playing with her earring. In this sculpture, she sits upon a throne and wears the royal kilt and the striped nemes (NEM-iss) headdress with the uraeus (cobra) and is bare chested like a man. STEVEN ZUCKER: And in Traditionally, the rulers of Egypt were male. He was the son and probably the successor of Khafre and, according to the Turin papyrus, reigned for 18 (or 28) years. They write new content and verify and edit content received from contributors. Ancient Mediterranean: 3500 B.C.E.-300 C.E. Not only is it a truly unique piece of work, but also it is a piece that is revolutionary for its time. The majority were found in various stages of completion. Including a cylindrical body and legs. One further note is needed in consideration of the relationship of type to response to the phenomenal world. His inquiries soon bore fruit. It must have been an incredible performance. The dyad of Menkaure and his Queen was undoubtedly a work of art meant to perpetuate the Egyptian pharaoh's glory. (Figure 4.5) To achieve this end, Marc took great liberty in creating an image that went far beyond what he saw, to make an expression that carries messages of what he thought and felt about his subject. In the pyramid, there is one more, apparently false burial chamber. Figure 2. As art became more and more prevalent through the late 3rd and early 4th centurys artists began to focus more on anatomical perfection and realism borrowing artistic elements from other cultures such as the Greeks. Beth Harris "Do you realise that "Akhenaten" does not mean "The Aten is Happy" ? They also executed pieces in various metals, including copper, copper alloys (such as bronze), gold, and silver. This quartz-based medium could be easily shaped, molded, and mass produced. This gesture also showed how they did not respect Queen Hatshepsut because they altered her image as a male. I remember seeing a program on television that said that Akhenaten was in fact "out of proportion" and that his pointy skull, narrow shoulders, and large waist, were a result of inbreeding which was a common practice amongst royal families. he at least two other wives. This is a collection of images based on the bible story of The Birth of Moses.The images in this set are:Pharaoh, baby Moses in basket, baby Moses, Miriam by the water, Moses's mother sad, mother holding Moses, word art, Pharaoh angry, princess finding Moses in the water, princess, pyramid, soldier, soldier reading proclamation26 images (13 in . The purpose of the meeting was to distribute the excavation areas on the Giza plateau. The sculpture is just under life-size, 54 inches tall. So he actually The rest of the triads that were complete stayed in Egypt. And this small stone plaque He also discovered the funerary chapels of the three satellite pyramids belonging to the wives of Menkaure and some tombs of funerary priests in charge of the royal cult. It was produced during the 4th dynasty of Old Kingdom Egypt during the reign of King Mycerinus for the purpose of housing the souls of both the king and his wife after their deaths. And if you look closely, However, the artists of both the statues are unknown., The sculptures' color is natural granodiorite. It was probably just a mistake. Akhenaten, changes the state religion. It is said, Menkaure was able to rule for a total of 12 years (or 18 years). In comparison, if we examine the renditions by folk artist Edward Hicks (1780-1849, USA), we see cows that are much less rigorous in their resemblance, most likely the result of his not having had exacting training and practice in precise replication. Hatshepsut in a Devotional Attitude is an Egyptian statue from 1473-1458 BCE. His wives were Queens Khamerernebty II and Rekhetre, while Shepseskaf was the successor to Menkaure and probably his son. She is renowned for being strong and assertive, whilst also fair and just. The figures of the Pharaoh Menkaure (r. c. 2530-c. 2510 BCE) and his Queen Khamerernebty are shown as being well proportioned, physically fit, and in young adulthood. If he had stopped doing good and would have become a cruel and unjust ruler, Maat might have canceled her sentence. The Great Pyramid site of Giza ended up with three pyramids. Direct link to ducie1's post Beth Harris "Do you reali, Posted 3 years ago. Menkaure and his Queen Artist/Culture: Old Kingdom, Egypt Date: 2530 BCE Materials/Medium: Greywacke or Graywacke / Slate (a variety of sandstone generally characterized by its hardness, dark color, and poorly sorted angular grains of quartz, feldspar, and small rock fragments or lithic fragments set in a compact, clay-fine matrix) I think I watched a documentary once where they said Nefertiti herself reinstituted polytheism after her husband's death to basically make nice with the priests. He had enough time to build his pyramid as big as the other two pyramids of Giza, but he did not. We really have a BETH HARRIS: We see Nefertiti This article was most recently revised and updated by. sense of a couple and their relationship It is made out of Graywacke, a type of stone. Polishing was achieved with a smooth rubbing stone and abrasive sands with a fine grit. The Valley temple was a mainly brick built structure which was enlarged in the 5th or 6th dynasty. ), graywacke, c. 2490-2472 BCE (Museum of Fine Arts, Boston). Direct link to edosan's post We don't really know the , Posted 10 years ago. Menkaure had another son Sekhemre, as discovered from a statue at Menkaures pyramid. There are also theories which say he may have been androgynous, a hermaphrodite, etc. The sculpture was carved out of slate and has also been known . arms, and elongated skulls, forms that have made for Akhenaten and Nefertiti. is sitting on a simpler throne. Possible answers to your question might be found at: The size of the people in Egyptian art has to do with their importance. As an effort to present her in unthreatening guise to make Egyptians feel more at ease, artists depicted Queen Hatshepsut as a male wearing the stylized beards that are traditionally associated with pharaohs. Egyptian artists used a wide array of materials, both local and imported, from very early in their history. Menkaure was the eldest son of Pharaoh Khafre, the grandson of Khufu (Cheops), and ruled in the middle of the third millennium BC, from about 2490 to -2473, though the length of Menkaure's reign is uncertain. King Menkaura (Mycerinus) and queen Egyptian Old Kingdom, Dynasty 4, reign of Menkaura 2490-2472 B.C. In 1902 an Egyptological "summit" was held on the terrace of the Mena House hotel in Cairo. (the Old Kingdom), and the House Altar, which was produced in 1350 B.C.E. This small, black granite sculpture that caught my eye is of him. altar in someone's home, where they would have seen The many reliefs and paintings in this temple serve as sources from which we can draw conclusions about her life and her reign., These two statues are famous to the Egyptian art era. To one degree or another, all art is abstract in that it is not the original form but instead the artists response to the original form rendered in artistic terms although, clearly, not all of it is so strongly abstracted that we lose the plainer references to the physical world. DISCOVERY The statue of the Pharaoh Menkaure (Mycerinus) and his Queen in the Museum of Fine Arts, Boston, carved out of slate and dating to 2548-2530 BCE, is an example of Old Kingdom 4th Dynasty royal sculpture. there is only one true god. Hence, his second son Shepseskaf became his successor to the throne, as per the Turin King List. episode in Egyptian history, but it also marks a It had been invited by Gaston Maspero, director of the Egyptian Antiquities Service, and some of the great archaeologists of [] For example, the Bust of Nefertiti was created during the Armana art period. Carved circa 2532-2510 b.c.e., the Standing Sculpture of King Menkaure and Queen Kha-merer-nebu II is both a masterpiece of Egyptian sculpture and an illustration of the Egyptian conventions for representing a king and queen. Theoretically, he expanded his reign from six to twelve years. The vast foundation base of this pyramid was built of limestone and measured 108.5 meters in length. of the iconography here. Menkaure And His Queen Analysis. Introduction to Art - Design, Context, and Meaning (Sachant et al. For instance, the exemplary statues of Menkaure (right), builder of the smallest of the three major pyramids at Giza, were executed in dark schist (also called graywacke). The human figures in the painting are depicted with their head in profile, the eyes and shoulders viewed frontally and with the hips, legs and feet in profile. There was a canon, or set of principles and norms, for the representation of royals that was very specific about just how they must look, including norms for the proportions of the different parts of the body to one another, their stance, and other details. There was also a cedar coffin. If so, why did it fail? We still see a composite At first glance, the part of the sculpture that seems to stand out the most are the heads of the pharaoh and the queen. take a close look. Menkaure changed the people's situation significantly by opening the temples, reduced restrictions toward the people exhausted by poverty, letting them work in their fields, and offer sacrifices. Fragment of a sphinx of King Menkaure (Mycerinus) was unearthed in Late Bronze Age Hazor in a context postdating Menkaure's reign by more than a thousand years. Some Egyptologists claim Khafre was also responsible for building the Great Sphinx. That would make them pretty important - and so they're big in pictures. They had a son together, Khunre, but he died early. The pharaoh is always big. https://web.archive.org/web/20140215025647/http://smarthistory.khanacademy.org/materials-and-techniques-of-the-ancient-egyptian-artist.html, CC BY-NC-SA: Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike. According to what's known today, Menkaure had 3 sons and 2 daughters. (Figure 4.7). traditional religion. The first artist to use the term non- objective art, however, seems to have been Aleksandr Rodchenko (1890-1956, Russia), (Spatial Construction no. King Menkaura (Mycerinus) and queen Egyptian Old Kingdom, Dynasty 4, reign of Menkaura 2490-2472 B.C. and shows Akhenaten, Nefertiti, and three of their daughters (the New Kingdom). Ancient Desert Mystery Did Thousands Vanish Without A Trace Because Of An Ominous Prophecy And Revenge? These images preserve traces of red paint on the kings skin indicating that, when completed and placed in his memorial temple near his pyramid, they would have appeared lifelike in coloration. It's so informal, compared It was a raw brick construction with a limestone foundation, which gave the impression of having been hastily finished, perhaps due to the unexpected death of the king. Direct link to S.D. In 1908, George Reisner found eight "triads" representing Pharaoh Menkaure, the goddess Hathor, and various provinces of Egypt. In the Egyptian language, the Pyramid of Menkaure was known as Netjer-er-Menkaure, or Menkaure is divine. Khentkaus I, the Queen of the next Pharaoh Shepseskaf, was a daughter of Menkaure; while his second daughter died at an immature age, during the lifetime of her . her importance and the fact that they would It was created during the time of the middle kingdom. . It is a little over 6 feet tall and about 20 inches at its widest. BETH HARRIS: Right. You can see all the shapes, from the ears to the mouth. Indeed, we have evidence of the process and its result in Composition VIII (The Cow), a fully developed instruction that provides us with great insight into Van Doesburgs train of thought and work, as well as his process of abstraction. The artists etching of the lions face and body, as well as the three, Standing at around four feet eight inches, the sculpture of Menkaure and His Queen is estimated to have been created between 2548 to 2530 BC. Such representations were more for a political statement, rather than a reflection of the way she actually looked. Style quickly reverted to traditional forms. Findspot: Egypt, Giza, Menkaura Valley Temple Medium/Technique Greywacke Dimensions Overall: 142.2 x 57.1 x 55.2 cm, 676.8 kg (56 x 22 1/2 x 21 3/4 in., 1492.1 lb.) Direct link to Greg Boyle dG dB's post No one is really sure. ), { "4.01:_INTRODUCTION" : "property get [Map MindTouch.Deki.Logic.ExtensionProcessorQueryProvider+<>c__DisplayClass228_0.b__1]()", "4.02:_FORMAL_OR_CRITICAL_ANALYSIS" : "property get [Map MindTouch.Deki.Logic.ExtensionProcessorQueryProvider+<>c__DisplayClass228_0.b__1]()", "4.03:_TYPES_OF_ART" : "property get [Map MindTouch.Deki.Logic.ExtensionProcessorQueryProvider+<>c__DisplayClass228_0.b__1]()", "4.04:_STYLES_OF_ART" : "property get [Map MindTouch.Deki.Logic.ExtensionProcessorQueryProvider+<>c__DisplayClass228_0.b__1]()", "4.05:_BEFORE_YOU_MOVE_ON" : "property get [Map MindTouch.Deki.Logic.ExtensionProcessorQueryProvider+<>c__DisplayClass228_0.b__1]()" }, { "00:_Front_Matter" : "property get [Map MindTouch.Deki.Logic.ExtensionProcessorQueryProvider+<>c__DisplayClass228_0.b__1]()", "01:_What_is_Art" : "property get [Map MindTouch.Deki.Logic.ExtensionProcessorQueryProvider+<>c__DisplayClass228_0.b__1]()", "02:_The_Structure_of_Art" : "property get [Map MindTouch.Deki.Logic.ExtensionProcessorQueryProvider+<>c__DisplayClass228_0.b__1]()", "03:_Significance_of_Materials_Used_in_Art" : "property get [Map MindTouch.Deki.Logic.ExtensionProcessorQueryProvider+<>c__DisplayClass228_0.b__1]()", "04:_Describing_Art" : "property get [Map MindTouch.Deki.Logic.ExtensionProcessorQueryProvider+<>c__DisplayClass228_0.b__1]()", "05:_Meaning_in_Art" : "property get [Map MindTouch.Deki.Logic.ExtensionProcessorQueryProvider+<>c__DisplayClass228_0.b__1]()", "06:_Connecting_Art_to_Our_Lives" : "property get [Map MindTouch.Deki.Logic.ExtensionProcessorQueryProvider+<>c__DisplayClass228_0.b__1]()", "07:_Form_in_Architecture" : "property get [Map MindTouch.Deki.Logic.ExtensionProcessorQueryProvider+<>c__DisplayClass228_0.b__1]()", "08:_Art_and_Identity" : "property get [Map MindTouch.Deki.Logic.ExtensionProcessorQueryProvider+<>c__DisplayClass228_0.b__1]()", "09:_Art_and_Power" : "property get [Map MindTouch.Deki.Logic.ExtensionProcessorQueryProvider+<>c__DisplayClass228_0.b__1]()", "10:_Art_and_Ritual_Life" : "property get [Map MindTouch.Deki.Logic.ExtensionProcessorQueryProvider+<>c__DisplayClass228_0.b__1]()", "11:_Art_and_Ethics" : "property get [Map MindTouch.Deki.Logic.ExtensionProcessorQueryProvider+<>c__DisplayClass228_0.b__1]()", "zz:_Back_Matter" : "property get [Map MindTouch.Deki.Logic.ExtensionProcessorQueryProvider+<>c__DisplayClass228_0.b__1]()" }, [ "article:topic", "license:ccbysa", "showtoc:no", "authorname:psachantetal", "program:galileo" ], https://human.libretexts.org/@app/auth/3/login?returnto=https%3A%2F%2Fhuman.libretexts.org%2FBookshelves%2FArt%2FBook%253A_Introduction_to_Art_-_Design_Context_and_Meaning_(Sachant_et_al. Menkaure is perhaps most well-known for his pyramid at Giza, which is the smallest of the three pyramids at the site and is located next to the Great Pyramid of Khufu, built by Menkaure's grandfather. A cache of royal jewelry from the tombs of Middle Kingdom princesses displays extremely high levels of skill in terms of design as well as precisely cut stone inlays, repouss, and cloisonn. While looking around on the 3rd floor, there was one specific piece that caught my attention, King Senwosret III. If you're behind a web filter, please make sure that the domains *.kastatic.org and *.kasandbox.org are unblocked. During the late 1970s, one teacher questioned the role of the queen in ancient Egyptian art. He illustrates this image from the simplistic posture of the individual rather then elaborating on jewelry or clothes. Direct link to Steve Lederer's post I remember seeing a progr, Posted 9 years ago.